How do we escape Moloch’s trap for good? In this special Burning Man edition of Win-Win, Liv forgoes the usual purple chairs for dusty playa to chat with Kristian Rönn. Kristian is the CEO and co-founder of Normative, a platform for helping industries strive for net zero emissions. With intellectual roots in Oxford’s Future of Humanity Institute and his own mission to create positive-sum solutions to climate change, Kristian has just launched a new book - The Darwinian Trap - and in this conversation, Liv and Kristian examine solutions to the short-term thinking and cost externalisation that traditional markets often produce. A conversation full of evolutionary biology, game theory and economics as they examine solutions to the world’s deadliest demon.